(upbeat music) - [Narrator] This is a production of PBS Charlotte.

(soft music) - Straight ahead on "Carolina IMPACT" seeking unity special, please join me for a conversation on how we can all disagree with dignity this election season.

We speak with people on both sides of the political aisle to find common ground.

"Carolina IMPACT" seeking unity special starts now.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] PBS Charlotte presents a Special "Carolina IMPACT" seeking unity.

(upbeat music continues) - Good evening, thanks so much for joining us.

I'm Dara Khaalid, and welcome to our special "Carolina IPACT" seeking unity.

We're inching closer and closer to the 2024 US presidential election.

And as we all have seen, tensions are pretty high right now.

It seems like both Republicans and Democrats are at each other's throats with hateful words instead of doing what really needs to be done, sitting down and having a conversation where each side is truly heard.

As the late Mahatma Gandhi once said, honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress.

And tonight that's exactly what we're striving for as we find a way to disagree with dignity.

Let me introduce you to our panel starting with Tony Bucci, a democrat who's lived here in Charlotte for over 30 years, and next we have Ms. Maria Elena Conaway, a Republican who's been in the area for over 40 years, lastly, Suzanne Elsbury, the co-president of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg branch of the League of Women Voters who will remain neutral tonight.

Thank you all so much for being here, and we'll start with my first question.

What are some things that you all have seen take place in our country that have polarized Republicans and Democrats leading to so much tension?

We can start with you, Tony.

- Well, I think passions have run high, especially over the last 10 years, because of the language that not only certain candidates have used, but also because people have been nervous about what this country's going to face for the rest of the 21st century.

And so, you know, people have put a stake in the ground, I think, and just said, "I'm standing here and I'm not gonna move."

And that militates against conversation.

And it's not just about reaching across the aisle, it's also about just understanding that there are things as human beings that we could and should do that would help facilitate dialogue rather than put up walls.

And I think, you know, the first is, I think there's three things.

I think there needs to be a personal commitment to civility.

I think there needs to be a willingness to understand, you know, we've heard from many experts about what you need to do first is to seek to understand, not to make sure that you get your point across and, you know, not listen to anyone else.

And that's the third thing is the willingness to listen, okay?

And listening means not just sitting next to someone and pretending like you're listening.

You need to listen with intentionality.

You need to say, "I am going to put "everything else out of my mind "and I'm going to listen to what this person has to say.

"I'm gonna let him or her say what she wants to.

"And when that person is finished, "then I may ask a question."

I may say, "Well, I feel this way about it."

And do it in polite conversation.

- And, Maria, what are your thoughts on this?

What are some things that you've seen that have polarized the two sides?

- Well, I think that people has fear and that's why depend on their background.

When you have a background, you know, in your culture and the way you grew up in your experience, you have fear.

So that fear makes that the two sides to be angry and argue because they don't want to repeat what they have lived.

And so that's one of the reason why there is fear during the conversation.

And so I think we need to relax and like Tony said, just like listen first and react later.

But the fear exists in languages.

And also I think I have to say, but sometimes the media fuel that fear in people maybe misinterpreted what the other candidate says, or make fun of the whatever, both candidates and thus create animosity among people and angry and does create and increase more the fear and the hate.

Also, I've seen people how they, like even the signs, political signs, one part, one political, no opponent, but the people that they, like, the Democrats or the Republican, they take out their signs and they throw them out.

You know, I've seen that lately with the people that they are for one party against the other party, which is kind of bad for the property of the people that they lived in their houses.

So I think just that we need to relax, we need to listen and be patient, but it is fear that people for x or y reason, they have in their background, they think that this candidate is gonna do to them something bad, that they have fear.

- Perfect and I wanna go a little deeper with something that both of you said.

So we all know just how powerful conversations can be, which is exactly why you all are here today.

And so according to an expert at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse reciprocity, generosity, and mutual respect are key principles when it comes to having productive conversations about politics.

So in other words, disagreeing with dignity.

And so why does this seem to be so difficult for people to do these days?

Maria?

- Like I said, you know, because of the fear and also because you want to teach, there is sometimes that one side wants to tell the other person how they think, how they should think, how they should act instead of be patient and comprehend that the other person might have another background for that person.

And that's why they act that way.

And they just have fear that something it could, it could impact their future, the stability of the country, of their family.

And that's why they have fear.

And, I think that is the reason that the people react, you know, because of the oh 1 party wants to doctrinate or tell them what to do, what to say, how they should be thinking, but you have to have mutual respect how the other person think.

- And Tony, I know you mentioned some principles a few minutes ago, but going off of the ones that I mentioned, which are pretty similar, what can we do to get back to those principles of respect and generosity and reciprocity?

- I think one thing is that we have to be willing to acknowledge that we live in a win-lose culture.

And that that does not facilitate communication and dialogue.

And so we need to point out to each other as we're in conversation, look, I'm really interested in what it is you have to say, I wanna learn from you.

I have my opinions and you have your opinions, but I wanna learn why you think the way you think, why you take the stands that you think, I have a friend whose politics and mine couldn't be farther apart.

And we have been able to discuss civilly with each other and sometimes with humor, which is a really helpful kind of thing in a discussion where there is potential for conflict.

And when we finish, we say to each other, you know, we know we're not gonna come to an agreement, but what we also know is that we listen to each other and we can have a civil conversation.

And frankly, you know, we thought we were rare in terms of that, that we could have a civil conversation about politics that were so diametrically opposed.

So there's got to be I don't wanna say ground rules, but there has to be just some mutual understanding that look, while it may sound artificial or structured, we need to be able to say to each other, look, here's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna listen to each other, we're gonna listen with intentionality, we're gonna let each other finish what we wanna say and then we'll move the conversation along.

So I think those contribute to mutual respect and really result in people walking away with their dignity intact.

- And Suzanne, I wanna hear from you, what are some ways that your organization encourages that open bipartisan dialogue that pushes reciprocity, generosity, and mutual respect in a neutral way to bring people together?

- Right, well, first of all, the league is and always has been nonpartisan.

And, you know, it's kind of difficult, especially in these days of hyper-partisanship to maintain that.

But we are very, very careful about that because we're very trusted organization as we, you know, I mean, focus is registering voters and pushing issues.

We're issue oriented.

And of course, being nonpartisan doesn't mean that we're apolitical.

We do take stances on different issues and advocate and educate, but we neither oppose or endorse candidates or political parties.

And that's just, you know, where it's at.

But we operate on the belief that discourse, education, discussion is vital to democracy.

You know, it just goes to the heart of it.

And we believe that all voters have the right to participate in the franchise.

And to have their vote count, that's important with the league.

And we also believe that everyone should have equal access.

I know in these days of, you know, there's a lot of talk about voter suppression and we've taken a hard stand against that, that we believe everybody should have access and our elected officials should reflect the diversity in our community.

That's very important to the league.

- Thank you for sharing, Suzanne.

And so the two of you have mentioned that tension, and it seems like a lot of people are at odds, whether it's family, friends, coworkers, whoever, due to those varying political views.

So Tony, what's one strategy that you can think of that can really help people have better political conversations?

I know you mentioned some things that you do, but what else can you think of?

- Well, you know, I think it's important to point out that what we're talking about is nowhere near an easy thing to accomplish.

Okay, because people are going to start out in battle formation, I think.

And, so one is that you need to engage frequently, I think in dialogue with people.

Because even though you may start out, you know, taking a stand and being far apart, if you engage frequently and you engage deliberately with politeness, manners, civility, okay, I think you'll move little by little closer and closer to a greater understanding.

And not only of what the other person, but it helps with your own thinking.

It helps you to say, well, you know, I need to be more open about my own thinking.

Okay, and that you can help me do that.

I think you can communicate that to the other person.

You can say, I need to be open about my own thinking.

I, you know, firmly take a stand.

But, you know, maybe there are some things I haven't thought about.

So I think you've got to engage, but you've got to engage with civility.

- Maria.

What's a strategy that you can think of?

- I think that you should take a calm and relaxing way to communicate with the other person.

Also, the way your mannerisms and the way you talk, your hands, your expression since the beginning is very important.

Because when I am confrontational, my voice will be stronger and my emotions will be higher my hands, but the way that I talk.

So I just need to have a, to begin with a calm and relaxing way to speak to the other person that it doesn't share my views.

I think that is the main important thing.

And also do not say insulting things to the other person and just listen, listen first, her background.

Why is that person saying what that is saying?

Because it might be that they have a bad experience and they're scared about what is going to happen to them.

So I have to become and relax and just take a relaxing approach to our conversation.

- And Suzanne, I have another question for you.

So an article from the Harvard Business Review says that people gain a better understanding of what matters most to those around them when they work through conflict together, which of course involves talking to one another.

So immediately I thought of the phrase, and kind of going off of what you said a little bit here, Maria, it's not what you say, but how you say it.

So what are some positive ways that people can frame their sentences or conversations so that it's not offensive to others?

- I would think I agree with everything that Tony and Maria have said, would like to double down on that.

I think respect is key and I think looking for ways to collaborate.

The league collaborates with a lot of like-minded organizations and we work together, so therefore you can find commonalities.

I think, like Maria said, tone down the rhetoric.

Don't be disparaging to other people, you know, that gets you nowhere.

I read an article recently and it said, when there's an absence of unity, progress stops.

So it's a good thing for the whole, you know, if we work towards that at try to find things that, you know, you have in common though, like with Tony's friend, you know, they're obviously respecting the relationship.

The relationship is more important than the winning, you know, I think if you can kind of focus on that and just try to get all points of view and be open to it and don't be arrogant and feel like, okay, this is my opinion, so you know, I'm right and you're wrong and, you know, that's just the end of it because you've just closed doors.

And I think like Tony said, we need to stay open to all points of views and of course you're entitled to your point of view always, but respect, I think is key, yeah.

- Thank you for sharing that.

And so research shows that another way to disagree with dignity is to focus on the facts and not personalities, which is something I heard both of you mention.

So staying away from those personal attacks, which can really help kind of deescalate things, right?

So Tony, how have we become so focused on personalities these days?

- I think Maria Elena hit on it earlier when she said that there are things that happen in the culture at large that may be emphasized through various media organizations.

And I'm not doing a blanket criticism, but saying that people get their information in different ways through different sources, and they tend to take a position on that.

And they think that's right because often they're hearing like-minded kinds of things and they want to drive that home again.

Okay and I think, you know, one of the things that I've tried relating to some of the things that Suzanne had said is to engage people around civic responsibility, not around candidates or politics.

For example, I ran into some guys that I had met a couple of weeks ago, and I just said to them, oh, by the way, are you registered to vote?

And they said, yeah, and we're voting Republican.

I said, look, I didn't ask you who you're voting for, I just wanted to make sure you're registered to vote because voting is the most important obligation and responsibility that you have as a citizen.

And that was the end of it, okay?

There was no reason to get into anything.

So that's the first thing I try to ask people now, especially now, when we're 30 days away from an election, are you registered to vote?

Okay, it's more important that you vote than whether or not you are going to vote for somebody that you want to, you know, you want to convince others is absolutely the only answer because no one is the only answer.

And you know, and if people wanna engage around, why do you support A as opposed to B, then again, you've got to deliberately be civil.

You've got to deliberately keep in mind that you want to maintain the other person's dignity as well as your own.

And then either decide that the conversation can go to another step or it can't.

Okay, so I think there are different ways to discuss politics without discussing partisanship, so.

- And Maria, what are your thoughts on why it's become so hard for people to stay away from those personal attacks?

- Personality is important, I think, and some people think that maybe the personality is more important to them, but I think policies are more important than personality.

You wanted to make sure that the country goes in the right direction.

And I think, like I said, you know, like the media sometimes exaggerate and make fun of one candidate or the other candidate and they make emphasis in the way that their personality are.

Instead of them, the media focusing on what it matters to the people and why they should vote for this person and not for that person.

And just making sure that it will be the benefit for each person in this country.

It's not just only the personality, but it's also the policies that each candidate makes that will affect their life.

- And Suzanne, I wanna shift over to you.

So the author, Stephen Covey, who wrote "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" said, we should seek first to understand, which I know this is something you touched on earlier, then be understood.

So what can be done to help people get back to that.

- Sound like I'm doing a commercial for the league right now, but I guess I am the face and voice of the league.

So we have a one stop shop online program, it's called Vote411.org.

And it has all the information that any voter would need.

They can check their registration status, they can compare candidates, they can see their ballot, you know, changes in voting laws and that kind of thing.

So, you know, of course there are other organizations that do this, but that's what we do and we refer everybody and it's vote411.org and you can, you know, just get everything you need.

- And would you say that could be a good resource and voter preparation as we head into the election so that people know where they can go, all of that good stuff?

- Absolutely 'cause we feel like that you need, everyone needs to make a voting plan that's key.

And first of all, you need to be registered, you need to check your registration.

And then of course you need to know what the, you know, the rules are about, you know, this time we have voter ID.

So you have to take that with you.

You have to know when early voting starts and registration ends, you know, that type of thing.

And you can find that.

And you can also go to the Mecklenburg County Board of Elections.

- Thank you, Suzanne.

All right and as we wrap up here, I'd like to hear from all of you, when we think about coming together for the greater good of our country, disagreeing with dignity, how can we do that briefly, Tony?

- I think that Maria Elena again hit on something where she said, we've gotta be thinking about what kind of country do we want for our children and our grandchildren?

And the only way we're going to get to a place where we want a good life for them, however it's defined.

Okay, we need to be able to, in the so-called public marketplace, we need to be able to put our positions forward, but with respect.

And that will change the way people will understand not only big problems like natural disasters and how to deal with them, but day-to-day things.

What makes someone who doesn't speak to his neighbor, because they both have different lawn signs, all of a sudden come to that person's aid in the face of a natural disaster.

Just to use that as an example, because why, they have reached into themselves and said, this person is suffering.

I want to help this person.

That's what dignity's about.

That's what respect is about, okay.

And you can make that happen.

- Thank you Tony, Maria, briefly, what are your thoughts on that?

Disagreeing with dignity, bringing our country together, what are some ways?

- Yes, I think respect is very important first, think about the other people, think about their experiences, think about that maybe nobody should tell each other what to do or what to say because they already have the way of thinking.

But listen and respect them.

And also think about not the personality of the candidates, but what are they going to do for our country, the policies that will create a beautiful country, that it always has been a wonderful country, the United States, a country that everybody wants to come to the United States because of our policies, our way of being, our capitalism in our respect for each other.

And I think it is very important to listen one another and to think this is almost like Tony says, this is coming to be like a no catastrophe, but something that we have to think in common for the common good of each one and respect your opinion.

And I hope the candidates and the people that are high up can work together to make a better country.

- [Dara] Thank you Maria.

- You are welcome.

- And Suzanne, very brief, what are some ways?

- I would say empower the vote.

That is our mission at the league, to empower the vote and to protect democracy.

And we want people to be confident that their vote counts and that the elections are fair and safe and that's what we work towards all the time.

- Alright, well we are out of time and I wanna thank you all for having a peaceful conversation today.

And I think this is a great example for those watching on the starting point of having these tough conversations and how we can still find a way to disagree with dignity and find that unity, so thank you all.

- Thank you.

- And so for you all at home, thank you for watching today as well.

And we hope again that this was a great starting place for those conversations with your family, friends, coworkers.

And again, thank you for joining us for this special "Carolina IMPACT" Seeking Unity.

Goodnight.

(soft music) - [Narrator] A production of PBS Charlotte.

(soft music)